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Larry Dunham's avatar

Thanks to John Bing for posting these discussions on Ukraine. I certainly respect the opinions expressed by my fellow Alums. They have all given me new perspectives to ponder and certainly differ from the talking heads on TV on both the right and left. If only our politicians could discuss such topics in a rational way.

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John Ryder's avatar

Part II

As for the conflict of principles, it is surely true that the UN statement of these principles are placed in the context of other principles, which one of the responders was kind enough to list. These include, among others, the responsibility of all signatories to refrain from the use of force in pursuing their ends, which clearly Russia violated with respect to Ukraine. The problem is that if the principles have meaning and import, they must apply to all signatories equally, and the rest of us in making judgments about relevant cases cannot apply them differently to different cases either. Russia has clearly violated the principle of non-violence in relations with other countries, as has the US, the UK, NATO, China, and a number of other countries in recent years. NATO and the EU continue to defend the bombing of Serbia, which included civilian infrastructure – I saw one of the bridges over the Danube in Nowy Sad collapsed in the river – and support the forced secession of Kosovo that resulted. I fully agree that the Russian invasion of Ukraine was not justified, and on the same grounds neither was the NATO bombing of Serbia. If it is illegitimate for Russia to endorse the secession of Crimea and the Donbas because they were violently enabled, then it is equally illegitimate for NATO and the US to endorse the secession of Kosovo form Serbia because it, too, was violently enabled. We are not entitled to have it both ways. Something similar applies to the many other regions that have attempted to secede from the countries of which they were a part – Nagorno-Karabakh from Azerbaijan, Turkish Cyprus from Greek Cyprus, South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia, the relation between Taiwan and the PRC, the mess that is Israel and Palestine, among others.

The important point was made by one of the readers that it is not clear how the UN-endorsed right of self-determination can be calibrated. Presumably it would not be expected to apply to Northern California, but what about Texas? If not, why not? The principles enshrined in UN documents had their origin in the years in which colonies were being liberated, or were liberating themselves, from their colonial masters – English, French, Portuguese, Belgian, etc. These colonies were not states at the time, so the principle of the right of self-determination, which was meant to apply to them, could not have been meant to apply only to existing states. And the US and NATO use the preeminent value of self-determination to justify the Albanian population’s desire to be independent of Serbia’s control despite the fact that Kosovo has been part of Serbia for a very long time. It is not at all clear where the line can be drawn, but it is clear that as far as currently powerful states are concerned, it is not meant to be drawn to include only existing states. In that case, there is no good reason on the face of it to say that independence is legitimate for Kosovo or Nagorno-Karabakh, but not Crimea, Donetsk, and Lugansk.

This is the reason we face the conflict between the inviolability of borders and the self-determination of peoples. When all is said and done, it still seems to me that as important as respect for borders is, and it is indeed important, and as important as it is to avoid violent intervention, it remains the case that the wishes of the people of Crimea and the Donbas deserve to be respected. For the most part, they regard themselves to be Russian. They were fine with the way things were going in Ukraine before the coup, and the Donbas problem at least could have been worked out through the Minsk Accords. All of that has been rendered moot by Western intransigence and the Russian invasion. The question now is whether to insist on Ukraine returning to its pre-coup borders in defiance of the expressed will of the people of Crimea and the Donbas, or to honor their preferences and respect their secession and annexation to the Russian Federation. A respect for people and the self-determination suggests the latter.

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